A great conversation with an old friend and climbing buddy Vince Hempsall about transitioning to life as Dads. How did we get here and will we ever climb 5.13 again? And what does that even mean? Vince is a content provider, magazine editor, marketer, book author, adventurer, videographer, newspaper reporter, publisher, rock climber, social media communicator, mountain biker and writer. But most of all he is DAD and husband to an amazing wife. We discuss life with two young kids, the downside of not being sponsored climbers, the importance of the outdoors in raising healthy kids, compromised climbing, sleep coaching, skateboarding in your 40s and training our kids to take care of us when we break a hip. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dadwithoutborders/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Dad-Without-Borders-104442641427419 Website: https://dad-without-borders-e10084dc.simplecast.com/
Blue Netherclift 1:01
So today, I'm talking to Vince hempsell. And it's a great example of why I'm doing this podcast. Vince has a really good old friend of mine, and we've never actually had a really open, honest conversation about our experience of being dads. We discuss our identity as climbers, and the shifting perspective that we have, from climbers to dads their climb. We also talk about balancing the needs of young children with our climbing adventures lifestyles, as we introduce our kids to the outdoors and new activities. We even discuss sleep coaching, and we agree to a training schedule for the upcoming climbing season. And I also talk about why I took up skateboarding both in our mid 40s. Sorry, Vince, I just outed you. With two young kids. I'm excited to get into it, and talk about our experiences. So please enjoy this open and honest conversation with two old friends reflecting on being old climber dads. Sorry, Vince, I just did that again.
It's just a number. Brother, Vince, super stoked to have you on episode one of dat without borders. Just anyone that's listening out there just to give them a bit of a bit of background here that we know each other from climbing. Probably from back in you said maybe 2007 or 2000. I've kind of forget it's a blur. I think it was around 2007. So it's been a while. And most of that it's been about climbing connection and the fact that we're climbers, and that's, I feel like that's been like that's how I've defined myself for a long time. But then here we are, years later, not sure how we got here. But we both have two kids so and maybe you could just give us a background on your family's kind of setup who your dad too. And yeah, what you do for a living?
Vince Hempsall 2:50
Sure. My name is Vince hempsell, I have two young children at home and an incredible life. The children are two and a half and five months. And when I'm not working with them, I'm working on cootie Mountain culture magazine, and the editor there and it's it's a lot of fun. And when I'm not doing that, occasionally I get out and rock climb now, very occasionally, as we will discuss stuff, you know what's crazy is like, here we are, you know, 13 years, 14 years or whatever after we met first met, and I remember having a conversation with you just by like, yeah, we're not like we don't like it. And then and then yeah, and then you caved first. And and I just I have to do everything you do was
Blue Netherclift 3:47
already I was the inspiration. That's awesome. Oh, sorry, buddy. But it's a great isn't a great
Vince Hempsall 3:55
bad stuff. So great. No, it's funny. I I'll tell you I'll tell you I actually wasn't you. I hate to tell you that you had no bearing on my decision. Children whatsoever. You know what it was? It was it was I was on this mountain bike trip kind of brace thing in Nicaragua? Yeah, they'd fly me down. They're like do this article and kind of mountain bike across the country. And which sounds awesome. And I have to admit it was pretty awesome. But how are you doing that? Yeah, halfway through the trip. I'm like in this like, you know backwaters farm town and there's this guy walking his daughter to school and she's in like the little outfit uniform thing. And they're holding hands. They're walking down the the mud road to the local school, and I biked by them and I had this moment of like, what am I doing? What am I doing? I'm like biking across the country for what somebody I can go home and tell people I biked across Nicaragua, whoo, you know, and then I looked at that guy. And what he was doing, he was blocking down a mud road to take his kid to school. And he was, he was having a completely different experience than I was. And at that moment, it sort of shifted things for me. And I was like, I think I want to have that experience. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah, it was super awesome. And it helped it like Marley, my wife, you know, is younger than me. And she's just kind of hitting her stride as far as like, you know, a lot, a lot of talk about that.
Blue Netherclift 5:38
Biological, how many you guys have been together for a while at that point?
Vince Hempsall 5:42
Yeah, we've been together. Well, I've been married five years, but but by then, I can't actually remember how long we were married. But you
Blue Netherclift 5:53
guys, it'd be It was a long term. You guys are committed to that point as well. Right? Oh, yeah. If you got a good solid partner. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I would have come to having Indy, after having, you know, I had said he's seven years old. The relationship didn't work out. And whatever. So I don't know if I would have been like, really? Yeah, super keen to have but like having a really solid partner who's fantastic. And yeah, and the same with me, too, having a younger partner as well opens up those doors a bit more. So we know each other from climbing. And as Yeah, that was our first connection. And at that point, I'm living in a back of a van most summers climbing in Squamish living the dream. Ah, the good old days, just me and my dog. And here we are with our kids now. And trying to get that balance. I know, for me, it's, the passion is still there. I was just thinking about this, the passion is still there. 100%, actually, but I've just accepted and I've, I've let go the FOMO. And maybe that helps, because I'm not on social media as much anymore. But I don't get the fear of missing out. And I know, I just it'll come back, you know, it'll come back. But just right now. activities, activities have shifted a bit. And I would love for you to share the conversation that you had with Tommy Caldwell, around the the whole idea of having two kids and yeah, maybe you could just share what that conversation was because it did resonate with me. And but I think first actually, you do a better job than me. Just maybe introduce who Tommy Caldwell is, because there's probably a lot of people who actually have no idea. I know, we think everyone should know who he
Vince Hempsall 7:38
is. Right? Yeah, I would, I would argue that I think he's one of the best all around rock climbers in the United States. I mean, everyone knows Alex Honnold simply because he's, he's, you know, he's basically a freak of nature. But outside of the free soloing and stuff, Tommy Caldwell, who, who stars in the Dawn Wall, which
Blue Netherclift 8:06
did vailable on Netflix. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, maybe people do know, yeah, even if
Vince Hempsall 8:13
you're not a rock climber, it's totally worth watching. Because essentially, what he did was in a rock climbing sense, he, he went to the moon, you know, what he he did something that no one ever thought possible. So to that extent, I would, I would argue that he is by far one of one of the best rock climbers in the United States. And he went through a similar process to what you and I went through, which was lived out of a van, you know, like, dirtbag climber. And then, yeah, all of a sudden, he's married. He's got one kids, you know, takes a little bit of a toll on his climbing scene. And then he's got two kids. And so how this story is set up is that I met him at the Banff Film Festival a couple years ago, and I had one kid at the time, who was six months old, I guess. And, you know, I'm sitting there talking to him backstage, and we're chatting, and I'm like, Dude, what is the secret? Like, I got this six month old. I don't want to stop climbing. You know, I want to keep climbing hard. What? Look, what do I need to know? his immediate reaction was don't have a second. Because my daddy was like, Yeah, I guess your dad is his daughter, right? These two young kids and he Yeah, he's like, touring around for this movie, but he's always trying to be a dad. And yeah, there was no climbing happening in his life whatsoever. Right. And I took that to heart and then I noticed the second kid. Yeah, and sure enough,
Blue Netherclift 9:50
like Yeah, because it made a big difference. The second kid or had you already?
Vince Hempsall 9:54
Yeah. Huge difference. Yeah. You feel like you're well, you know, Like it's two parents, one kid, you outnumber them. And then all of a sudden the second comes along and you're. You got two sides. Two teams. Yeah.
Blue Netherclift 10:10
Well, just just trying to juggle juggle just trying to juggle two nap times. Even just that just sounds horrendous. Yeah. Because one naptime you stick one kid in a stroller, one can go for a walk, while the other one can do a bit of climbing.
Vince Hempsall 10:27
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, yeah, short term pain, you know, it's gonna be it's gonna be hard. But I think in the in the long run, we keep telling ourselves is, in the long run, totally awesome. Because the kids will climb together, do whatever together. Do
Blue Netherclift 10:43
you feel them? Where are you at with the climbing? Like, do you find? have you managed to find a balance where you can still get out a reasonable amount? Or is it just you know, forget about it. We got two kids under three. Not happening.
Vince Hempsall 10:55
Yeah, it's definitely taking the toll. I'm not anywhere close to where I once was. To be honest, I was supposed to be spending a lot of last summer doing research on a new rock climbing guide. And I was super naive going into it, you know, just figured, well, we'll have a baby at home and me and Carter can mean the older one can go do whatever. And then yeah, we didn't. There was none of that, you know, we just were just hunkered down and survival mode, you know, and maybe I think there are people out there that can that can still can still do it. We're just we're just, we just weren't able.
Blue Netherclift 11:33
It's interesting. Yeah, I do notice that. And I kind of wonder when I look at Instagram and see some of those that continue to get to the crack with the kids. Is it Are they having a good time, or the idea of going to the crack words, a friend of mine shared the idea of, you know, when you go when you go the family, it's a compromised climbing session, in the sense of, it's not really about you at that point. Like it's about introducing your kid to the climbing, it's about being supportive to the partner so that they can get climbing too. And it's just not going to be the kind of session the hard session I used to have when you were living in the back of a van. Yeah, I definitely Yeah, I
Vince Hempsall 12:13
kinda I stumble over the word compromise for no other reason, then that sort of got a negative connotation to it. And I think I think we need to be careful that it's not Yes, yes, absolutely. You're being compromised on a on a technical level, you know, but I would actually argue that you're, it's a way richer experience than you hanging out with your buddies, you know, shooting the shit, like, you're projecting these this hard stuff, versus you showing a brand new human being a brand new experience, right at different areas that like you wouldn't normally get to you. Right? That's the beauty of rock climbing. Is it takes you to these. Yeah, where is that? A lot of people don't necessarily get to. And so I would, I would say that, yes, compromise on certain level, but I'd be wary of that word.
Blue Netherclift 13:07
I think Yeah. And I think it's taken me a longer time to get there with with climbing. For whatever reason, I think maybe because it's so grade specific, not that I'm really caught up with the grade so much. And I haven't been for a long time. I like climbing a rock that I really like the look of and has an aesthetic beauty to it. And the movements I really enjoy. I'm definitely more focused on that. But it's taken me a long time, I think to shift to that, compared to skiing, where skiing to me is very community oriented at the ski hill, I found a way of introducing Seth, certainly Indy. Indy is not the kid that's taken to it naturally. But he is only to that he is he is the kid screaming at the ski hill, not super pumped. It's taking a while to get in there. But But I don't know, I have a little bit more patience around that than climbing and I just Yeah, and I wonder if that is because you know, maybe the access, it's easy to go to a ski lodge and there's a lodge so we can go in for some food. And there's like a whole community and there's other kids there. And it's like a whole family environment. Whereas where we are here. Yeah, it's not as easy accessible some of the climbing areas anyway. So, but I'd have to say someone a friend of, I think it's fair to say, our mutual friend Sonny, who but as a professional climber, it may be a little bit easier because there's sponsorship and you know, he has the extra support he has to his full time job. But I was definitely inspired by him and Lydia going off, you know, a whole family trip and living in the van for a year on the road, hitting all the climbing spots. And it definitely got me excited for hopefully in the not too distant future. To do to take it to take that approach. Do a do a road trip where it's kind of the old style dirtbag van culture introduced you I deal with a whole family. It may be a bit more of a glamping style.
Vince Hempsall 15:03
Yeah, yeah, we've already experienced it's with our mutual friend Jasmine, also a sponsored athlete who you know she had she has twins so like suddenly she's got two young kids you know? Whereas like you and I are just like, at least was one at a time right? Yeah figured it out with one anyway I think but we had the opportunity to go to Scott Hall with them and it was such a magical experience right? We basically the one the one bonus of going into a crag with young kids is you basically take over the crag because no one wants to hang out. If there's crying babies nearby right? We'll just we'll just go to so to that end, we kind of had it all to ourselves and we are like high fiving handing off babysitting duties and stuff is perfect.
Blue Netherclift 15:55
Oh yeah nice.
Vince Hempsall 15:56
I think you have to like there's still there's still awesome experiences to be had
Blue Netherclift 16:03
Yeah, definitely. I think Yeah, picking the right location to if you got a location where there's a good safe area and access to you know, whatever facilities you need toilets and so on. Yeah. Or even not you teach them how to go in the bush but yeah,
Vince Hempsall 16:21
we both had super rural upbringings and here we are and Nelson which is you know, small city but still city yeah and and the idea of like getting them outside as much as possible and getting into the mountains like the fact that the fact that Carter the other day looked out and said you know there's there's elephant mountain and it's it's foggy in the mountains daddy you know like like that to me just reiterate how privileged we are to live where we live, you know, because it's the complete opposite of my experience growing up in the prairies, right where I didn't even know where to mountain for the first bit of it right like so. So the idea is to get get him up as much as possible, but I don't feel like we got to you know, break the bank to do it. Right. Like I can take him to cottonwood I can go up a log row we can walk around like this past summer, the fall we're scoping different possible crag areas and stuff and all it all it entails is him and I go in for a walk in the bush you know, and that's perfect. But am I gonna take them winter camping anytime saying no. Like it's just we learned our lesson the hard way where we took them out. We took them to Smith rocks in October and it just turned to be it was unseasonably cold. It actually snowed on us and like sitting at a picnic table with a two year old screaming because he can't feel his hands and you're trying to shovel gruel into his face like what do we do right yeah, yeah, let's either get a camper and do this again or let's recognize that like day trips are fine for the time being when we hit the five year old stage when they start remembering this stuff you know then we'll start doing a little bit more
Blue Netherclift 18:13
Yeah, I think it's I mean yeah, it's hard to know when the memory starts I feel like as a kid I have a very deep memory of being certainly being four five and yeah, I think that's a good time to start thinking well as adventures I will share with you that I mean one spot here that is great. Other Forest Service road here there's there's two lakes that you can access and it'll take 25 minutes to drive there. You get put take a canoe off the truck get into the water is another few minutes in the into the lake. It's about five to 10 minutes to this little Sandy spit where the creek comes into the lake and Indy probably had the best fun that I think we've seen him have because it was warm water. And it was just he was just splashing and there was a super Sandy so he could play games. We had a picnic weathers and we were probably there for an hour like but that hour because we're seeing the eyes through a toddler it felt like an after full afternoon time is ready for his nap time we get back to the truck. So the whole I mean the whole journey was probably three hours but it felt like and the mountains are all around us I mean it's a beautiful picture I spot very quiet nobody goes up that way so much. And yeah, you don't doesn't need to be
Vince Hempsall 19:37
living where we live and like even here in town. You know, the mountain biking trails and the the hiking trails and the trees and stuff are five minutes away. Yeah. And so in the summer months Anyway, it was it was really easy to get it really easy and really important to get Carter at to do those. Like you mentioned three Our round trips you know like camping is a little bit next level at this at this stage but we've done it and you know it wasn't was completely horrible
Blue Netherclift 20:13
well you know that's why very much embrace car camping now in a race I see bc provincial parks now in a whole different light so
Vince Hempsall 20:21
like, Oh, those things man Yeah,
Blue Netherclift 20:25
yeah that like Yeah, exactly. Yeah it just seems like it was felt like you'd be selling out to go income someone like that yeah, it's actually perfect and you know and and if you do it gradually like that I feel like you hopefully won't put them off for life right it just becomes this really fun little adventure that you build up to. Yeah,
Vince Hempsall 20:45
I think to like and this is interesting because we were talking about this the other day with other friends like the whole importance of, of having an unexperienced what's called like when your rite of passage or rite of passage experience right and so you're not gonna find those at the at the, at the BC parks, you know, like you're not gonna find those in your national parks or anything like that. I think at this juncture when they're super young, it's it's important to kind of introduce them slowly, let's say, but eventually, yeah, I think as a rite of passage, it's important that they get out into an area that that tests them, you know, and I wouldn't I'm not saying that that has to happen when they're five, but it definitely has to happen at some stage.
Blue Netherclift 21:33
Yeah, I think that's a great point. I remember somebody and I'm not sure who it was, but making a comment around if they wish they could be the parent that could sit happily on the beach while the kids kind of play and do that thing.
Vince Hempsall 21:49
Right? Not parent. Am I that parent? Yeah. Can
Blue Netherclift 21:52
you do God? No,
Vince Hempsall 21:53
no, no, man, just be crazy sometimes. Like we spent a time and well no, I should say I should say this. It's it's a different beast, right? It's like, you know, I'm, I have a great time. No, it's it's hard to just sit on a beach and watch him. But then you work around it, right, like so. Last time, one of the last few times we went down, I took a paddleboard and threw him on it. And then both he and I had a great time, right? So it's kind of like, you're sort of finding those compromises. The beauty of parenting, is you find those, that mutual ground, right? Like it's not going to be, it's not going to be exactly like, you know, you and I go and bouldering for example, is a different thing than Carter and I going bouldering but there's still that mutual ground where we can go bouldering and he's gonna run around, you know, he's gonna run around the Boulder, and maybe I'll get to try one or two problems. But that's, that's, that's what it is right now. And it's Yeah,
Blue Netherclift 23:00
it's just nice attitude, isn't it? It's just changing. And just yeah,
Vince Hempsall 23:05
and like knowing that eventually we're gonna get back there. Right? Like, like all our friends you know, with older kids are getting back to it or not all but certainly a lot. And, and it's exciting to me to think like, at some point, Carter, and at some point, Andy is going to be crushing us, right? Like, there's gonna be like, way better as and I hope it's climbing. But who knows, it might be mountain biking, in which case, he's suddenly like, doing an inverted aerials off. No big jumps, and I'm like, barely keeping up. Your old man dad behind like, Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, whatever. Thank
Blue Netherclift 23:43
you, right. And I think as well, it's sometimes appreciating the progress like it's like skiing. I feel like every time you see that progression, you can see the improvement even from the very very young age like even Indy to you know, we've taken him up there maybe three or four times. And he's a long way obviously, from going on the left and like, you know, it's a couple years away, but just seeing that progression gets me really excited for the future was like taking Seth in it. I used to do a lot of whitewater paddling, like particularly canoeing. And yeah, I think Yeah, I could see it in terms of canoeing we put I put them in the canoe, because really accessible I was a single dad for a couple of years so for me that was a good activity that we could both do together. And I've often said it an hour on the on the lake in the canoe felt like a full day adventure because I was seeing everything through his eyes. So his excitement in that and maybe there's that selfishness left with the climbing where I've I think I've come I've think I've moved on from it now, but I think I just have to know that when I go I guess glow go to the Climbing Center have a training session. I won't maybe get Yeah, it's just gonna it's just different. You right? It's not competition.
Vince Hempsall 24:59
You have to move the Goal. Yeah, right. Like you, I would argue that the individuals who are who are still who have like young young kids, and you're still, you know, trying really hard to project their, their 513 and, and sacrificing time with their kids to do that. That's in my world. That's not okay.
Blue Netherclift 25:24
So do you think you'll so with that said, like, Where's your like, do you still have the passion now for climate he did before? And now even with two kids, is that changed?
Vince Hempsall 25:35
Yeah, I think a passion is still there. It's just a matter of accepting that acting on that, that passion is going to look different. So you've brought up a really good point about community right in the ski hill, it comes naturally, because well, there's a lodge and everyone's hanging out, and they're drinking hot chocolate and whatever. Yeah, you got it. And then and then it doesn't really have that. And so what I've what I've discovered over the last summer or maybe two years has been a lot of family hang out at the crag, which is something I never did before. It was always just like, me and a buddy. And we would go, you know, to the back and beyond, to like, just fly. Right? And there wasn't a terribly social event. Like if you wanted social climbing, you went to the gym, you know, totally Yeah. And now I think where things have shifted for me is I really relish that social environment with so we go to family friendly crags around here like a hall siding, for example, or that new one in Casa Gara that the guys just completed the the grad wall like that has a perfectly beautiful flat space down at the just just, like 100 meters down from the not even like 10 meters down from the base of the crag. And it's it's the perfect place to hang out with your kids. Right. So so now we organize it so that we got families going at the same time. And then somebody looking after the kids, some people are climbing you know, it's like concentrate off and, and that to me is a bit of a different experience. And it's cool.
Blue Netherclift 27:18
So I guess I just haven't experienced that here that kind of that sense of community at the crag. Which sounds awesome. I mean, slow camp laughs actually, is a good spot.
Vince Hempsall 27:27
Yeah, I've hung out there families. In fact, Carter learned how to walk there. First I sobered. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Hey, check his first real steps at the bottom of a crack. So I mean, that's just something
Blue Netherclift 27:41
had he been on the harness before he walks. Given the
Vince Hempsall 27:47
the funny thing, the funny story of Marley was like, I don't know, we're having this conversation of like, we don't need to buy our children anything. Like there's so many kids in this town. They're a little bit older. We're just getting yard every day. Yeah, let's have a buy nothing, baby. And then the next day, then, literally the next day. And I don't even know Carter hadn't even been born yet. I went to the climbing gym. And that is sale on climbing. Kid harnesses. Oh, yeah, I bought it. I bought it like, like, oh, kick. And then like, I'm looking at it now going, like, he's not even gonna fit that thing. And like, for minimum, I'd still it was really
Blue Netherclift 28:30
that's awesome. That's so part of me sometimes with some of these sports is like, yeah, try and get them access and see where they where they shine, and then be ready and willing. Just, yeah, just kind of keep supporting them doing whatever that thing is. And except that maybe is more I want to do. Yeah, which might be awkward.
Vince Hempsall 28:51
Yeah, interesting. So that brings up another point about like, and I'm interested to hear your views on this too. But I'll tell you mine quick, just that idea of like expectations, you know, so I really, really want my kids to climb. I really, really, really don't want them to play hockey. And you know what, because I want that. For sure they're going to want to like play hockey, you know, but but then I think like so we had when I was I headed up the local rock climbing Association here. And we used to do festival or we still do festivals every every year and Wilson came to talk to one Oh, yeah, yeah, the one he's the presenter, and he stayed at our house. And I got a chance to like just, you know, shoot the shit with them and stuff is so cool. And, and we were talking about like kids and climbing and stuff. And he's like, you know, it's really, really important if you want to get to the stage where you're a 514 climber for example, which is where he's dad like yeah, comfortably doing some of the hardest roots in, in Canada, certainly. And like, but he started when he was a child, you know, so his tendons grew with them, you know, and they were used to that sort of exertion. Hazel Finley, also a great example. Tommy Caldwell, all these guys started when they were young. And granted and like, you know, they might have fallen out like, a couple of years here and there, but it didn't matter they had, they had 20 years practice by the time they were, you know, in finishing high school or, like starting University, right? And so there's no way I'm ever going to be able to, like I've accepted that doing a 514 probably isn't in my lifetime, because I just don't have the the consistent, you know, finger strength slash tendons slash loss, especially now like the the ability to train for that sort of thing.
Blue Netherclift 31:00
Yeah, yeah. I guess at some point, it's got to be that choice. It's got to be a fun activity. Because if they're being pushed too hard, that I wonder if they burn out and just end up taking up skateboarding. Oh, you're right. Like they just burned? Yeah. Yeah, it'd be Yeah, exactly.
Vince Hempsall 31:16
You don't want to you don't want to push too hard. Because otherwise they'll end up in hockey.
Blue Netherclift 31:20
Totally. I mean, I can say, yeah, it's so true, though. It's so true. I've thought about that a lot. Because we have an ice we literally one block. Yeah. In the winter. It's an ice skating rink. The tennis courts gets flooded. And it's nice and safe. We're not getting ice skates. We're not hanging out. Like gonna have to give that one up. Yeah, of
Vince Hempsall 31:43
course, you're gonna get ice. Hockey is a whole different animal. Now that's like arena hockey, where you need all the gear, but
Blue Netherclift 31:51
that's where they get the taste for it. Right? Then they're like, Oh, this is so fun. I want to go to the rink and do so I mean, guide them away from that into the scheme and
Vince Hempsall 32:00
get away from swimming. Any competitive
Blue Netherclift 32:06
swimming, though there's a hot tub on a sauna there. The hot tub in the sauna. I'm happy there. Oh,
Vince Hempsall 32:13
yeah. And he I saw your race. It was incredible. Meanwhile, your name is everything. That's so
Blue Netherclift 32:19
true. You know, like I, you tease me a couple times, rightly so. But I have to say like, I was trying to find something. So Seth, unfortunately ends up in the UK. He comes here in the summers. And you know, we get him in some of the holidays. But I have to go there to see him. So the activity that I've that he loves so much. And it was just a natural progression for him was skating on a scooter. And so there was me going to visit him in the UK to spend quality time. And that's where that she this friend of mine again comes up. Who's this climbing friend of mine. He took I said to him, he's just turned, he's just turned 52 really strong climber. He's a route setter, professionally, and but he got into skateboarding. And I said to him, when did you get into skateboarding, and he was like, 45. I'm now 46. So I figured last year when I turned 45, okay, if he can do it, I can do it. And but what I really realized about this, and I spoke to a psychologist about this, when you take up a new activity, dopamine is released. So that feeling of joy that you get that you both have at the same time really helps to grow your relationship. And I hadn't thought about that too, later. But me taking up skateboarding, because I was getting because I was learning. And these really simple things that, like, I'll never be able to do much on a skateboard. But I can Ollie and I can carve into the bowl and all the rest of it. But because I get this release, like this joy, this release of dopamine, as I'm learning these new things, Seth is too because he's learning on his scooter. So both of us are in the park together, releasing dopamine and get just having this really joyful experience. And so what I've realized is that what I that's what I love about skateboarding, because I'm actually just thought about this today. Because when I go and do it, I feel closer to him, even when he's in the UK, because this is something that just immediately brings me that joy in those feelings. It just feels like he's with me. And so I kind of that's one of the things I really love about skateboarding is it's super fun and playful. So it keeps me young spirit and whatever. But it's that feeling of like it makes me feel closer to him, even though he's not around kind of thing. And then when we are together, we kind of grow and learn and Hey, Dad, try this. And I'd be like, Seth, try this. And he's on a scooter on a skateboard. So we're doing slightly different things. But we're in the park together. And I've realized like, that's, that's why I really love the skating. Plus, I don't want to just sit there with my coffee, while the kids are having all the fun, right? Because what that sucks in that too. But I did Yeah, I just that's where the skateboarding kind of like, accidentally crept into my life. Whereas bouldering now I'm like, Oh, I want to go to the skate park. Yeah. I'd say that
Vince Hempsall 35:02
dude, that's awesome. I do make fun of you for no other reason then I worry that you're gonna break yourself.
Blue Netherclift 35:09
I must say I am the DAP of the past it's a little embarrassing. The teenage teenagers turn off turn up. I'm like a tail between my legs taking the pads off really quickly so they can go off to the truck and
Vince Hempsall 35:22
yeah, God forbid the teenager should laugh at us.
Blue Netherclift 35:27
But yeah, so do you feel like I guess they're they're too young right now. I guess you your boys in terms of like trying other activities out and things? You're not quite there yet?
Vince Hempsall 35:38
Well, definitely the youngest, like he's hasn't quite Yeah, but I mean, the two and a half year old. It's it's our and it's, it's awesome. Because Marlene and I are very much on the same page. It's just about introducing them to stuff.
Blue Netherclift 35:53
It's not on the theme of climbing. But how is like your your parents must be the nicest people in the world. Honestly, they're just I've learned I've met him a couple times and had really good chats every time. And how I'm just wondering, how did they? How was your upbringing? You know, with them, the way they raised you? How's that impacted the way that you see yourself as a dad and things that you may do differently?
Vince Hempsall 36:18
That actually is a really good question. Because it really, it hit home this week. I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole. But my Yeah, my grandfather's wife passed away from cancer. And she was 20 years or 20 years his junior. Right? Wow. He's 19. And the guy is, like, just he just passed his driver's test. Like he's still you know, yeah, you have complete jeans, buddy from good jeans. Yeah.
Blue Netherclift 36:50
I'm in 514 buy in 10. Yeah,
Vince Hempsall 36:52
yeah. Yeah, exactly. Don't give up. Don't give up. Yeah. Yeah, so so why bring this up? Is because we're we're once we all thought, well, that guy's 99. But he's, you know, he's he's had a good run. And he's still super healthy. But we don't most of us don't go past 110 you know, so. And, and because she was so much younger, just assumed she was going to be his caretaker. And so how this, how this relates to your question is, it really is turned it on its head for me. That idea of, you know, being being looked after, right? It's funny, because I never thought I'd be that person. I never thought I'd be that that guy who was just like, I have kids because I need somebody to look after me. Like I would never in a million years think that. And yet just this past week, like a watch as my mom takes care of her dad, you know, and he's and she's, and she just does it. Right? Because like she's his daughter, and that's what you do. Yeah. And it really it threw it on its head because for me at least because here I am, you know, both Marley and I most are more so Marley waking up in the middle of the night, looking after you know, your kid and changing diapers and all this stuff. And wow, how interesting. Is it that like, What goes around comes around? You know? Yeah. So in answer your question, I think I did have a really great upbringing. My parents are still together. They're beautiful people, they're they're currently looking after their grandfather, or sorry, my grandfather, their father. And, and working hard at it. Yeah. And, and yet, there, there would be no hesitation, if they are to call me up and be like, we need you here to help us. You know, like, like, I would totally do that. And I think it's really important at this juncture, you know, as early as it is to start instilling that in our kids to say, I'm going to be here for you, no matter what. And I need you to be here for me no matter how that I imagine, like in you know, 30 years time, right? Like, I don't know, I fall and break a hip, but yeah, and like I can call my kids and be like, and no, that is
Blue Netherclift 39:29
that was happening in 30 years time, but we break in
Vince Hempsall 39:36
the way I'm doing right now I got a break ahead next week.
Blue Netherclift 39:39
That's a fair point.
Vince Hempsall 39:40
It's something to think about, I think and yeah, bring this up is because I think it's important to instill at the outset, you know, that idea of like you and you said right at the beginning of our conversation, that the relationship piece is just as important, if not more so. And I agree with you wholeheartedly because that's the One that's going to be there, you know, when the kids move out and stuff, and that's also going to be that's also instilling in your kids the importance of loving and respecting one another.
Blue Netherclift 40:13
That's a Yeah, that's actually a really good point. Because Yeah, you're kind of setting the standard as your kids grow up as to how to act and behave around other people. But in particular, yeah, their partner.
Vince Hempsall 40:24
I look at I look at like, Carter. Carter's is a terrible habit of mine, but like, I have, like, my patience is worn thin, anyway. Yeah. Exactly. So like, I'm super good with the kids. But the second that cats start like the cat, you say the cats. Oh, yeah. Oh, dude, like three in the morning. They're having like cat fights and stuff. And I'm just like, what's not at the patient? Like, it's funny, because, you know, we used to be like,
Blue Netherclift 40:54
Oh, did I go back now that Yeah,
Vince Hempsall 40:58
we used to, we used to love your babies. And now they're extraneous to our lives. Like, they could go away tomorrow and be like, I say that in loving jazz. But by the same token, like, Carter's picked up on how I talk to the cats, you know, occasionally where I'm just like, shut up. Gimli Oh, really? Yeah. But he's, now he's picking up on me starting to talk to a cat that way. And I'm just like, Oh, no, what have I done? Like, thank God, I wasn't talking to Marley that way, or like anybody else, right? Like, yeah, at least, at least it was just a cat. But even then, that's just taught him something that I wish I could take back. You know,
Blue Netherclift 41:41
so is it so he's imitating you're hearing him do the like,
Vince Hempsall 41:44
totally. Yeah, he's he's just like, he's, no, he's like, Gimli No, bad cat. No, you know, Brian. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure I just said that like a few hours ago because the cat the goddamn cat jumped up on the kitchen counter or something. Right? And I was like, screaming at it. And then an hour later Carter's, like, game I know you're bad. You know, it's like, oh, but he's not he's not bad anymore. That's hilarious.
Blue Netherclift 42:16
So you, you might have seen a sleep consultant recently because you're trying to figure out you got the two kids now they're going to be sleeping in the same room.
Vince Hempsall 42:25
Oh, you know, first night, Saturday night, it was epic. It was so good. Everyone slept really, really well. And then last night was the total opposite
Blue Netherclift 42:34
was the sleeping arrangement been Have you guys had like Cooper's been in with you guys in the bed?
Vince Hempsall 42:41
No. Cooper's had his own room. cars had his own room. And Marley and I are like, you know, all over the map. I was sleeping. I was sleeping. Wow, well, no, we're never we're never in their rooms. Like just figure it out on their own whatever. Yeah, but Cooper was in our master bedroom, you know, and so yeah, we're sleeping on like shitty beds, like all over the house, basically. Wow. Finally, we just get bit the bullet. Like, screw this. So,
Blue Netherclift 43:13
so they're gonna do you have a two bedroom house? I forget. Oh, you got three beds?
Vince Hempsall 43:17
Well, technically, this room is a bedroom. Right? Yeah. But yeah, really, upstairs, there's only the two bedrooms. So we always knew that kids are going to be in the same room together. It was just like when. And finally we actually hired a sleep consultant merrily hired a sleep consultant because it was just just really for peace of mind. Right? You know? Yeah. Especially I port Marley has been, it's been two and a half years, where she hasn't had a decent sleep. Pretty much. So. So we wanted and Cooper was like going down that same path that Carter was in where, you know, a year a year, and he would still be waking up over the course of the night. And we just couldn't just couldn't bring ourselves to do that anymore. Yeah,
Blue Netherclift 44:06
no doubt. I mean, that's the Yeah, it's major torture. Lack of sleep. Yeah, well, exactly.
Vince Hempsall 44:11
It's Yeah. It's a real deal. I know that you know that. But I mean, I know that from just right now feel the feeling that I have.
Blue Netherclift 44:21
Here. I got it. So I got a question. If you've been to see a sleep consultant. Yeah. He like one golden nugget of information that you got with from that. The only thing that I've ever done around sleep really is figure it out through trial and error, and then Google anything I could find to help. But there's too much information out there almost.
Vince Hempsall 44:42
Yeah, yeah. So there's two things. Well, first off, we didn't we didn't see a sleep consultant. We actually hired them. She works out of Calgary and it's all it's all phone call based. And she has like a set program that she works with and So in answer your question, there are two things that really came out of it. The first is you're accountable to somebody, right? So like, so like if you if it's just you and your wife or your partner and you're just you're just figuring it out and you're making it up and you break the rules, you know, you tell yourself, okay, we're not going to go in, you know, for 20 minutes or whatever, but, but, like hearing your kids cry, especially at three in the morning, you know, it's just like, it's heartbreaking, right? So you tend to like, you know, break the rules, you go in, you placate them, whatever, and then, and then, and then everything you've done is just negated because the kids are like, Oh, I can I can cry now you're gonna come in and get me so whatever. So you're accountable to somebody and then the second thing relates to exactly what you just said, which is it negates you having to check the internet at three in the morning. You know, like, try to try to track down solutions on on the internet, which are, which is impossible, right? There's just so much variety out there, like pick a pickup person, and it was worth it. Like it wasn't that expensive, to be honest, after all said and done, like, how much is your sleep worth to you? And so I think we threw 300 and some odd bucks out or whatever. And like, we're already, you know, we're already seeing the benefits. Wow, we're only like a weekend, or we can have it in.
Blue Netherclift 46:25
That's two thoughts come to me. That is what you with what you just shared actually, is. One you kind of both need, you do both need to be on the same page. Now I've I've found that the biggest struggle with it is you agree something and it's just hard to stick to something? Yeah, inevitably one of us gonna say no, no, I don't know I can crying. I'm gonna stop. You can't do that.
Vince Hempsall 46:50
Because the three in the morning no one's rational. No, especially when your kids screaming and the next read and yeah,
Blue Netherclift 46:56
well then and they are there thought I had was when he Google stuff, you can kind of anyone can prop up their own argument. Oh, did you? Did you learn anything new? Or did it just help you get in the right mindset for tackling it?
Vince Hempsall 47:13
Both. So it's like anything, right? Like when we you got to practice, practice, practice, and you got to stick to actually it harkens back to you know, climbing back in the day when I actually used to train for competitions and stuff. You know, you had to you practice your weaknesses, and you had to set or stick to a set schedule. And this is the exact same thing, right? It's like you practice your weaknesses, and you stick to the schedule, and no matter how much they're crying, you know, you just got to stick with it. And like, it's short term pain, long term game. Yeah, totally. That's not for everyone. I won't, I won't, I won't say that. This is the be all and end all like some people, you know, like, every kid's different, right? Every couple is different. And every Yeah. People might not want to go through that short term pain of listening to your kids scream for half. Yeah, I'm right. Like, it's, it's heartbreaking.
Blue Netherclift 48:09
I'm actually just been thinking like, I'm probably gonna leave it till February and then start training I've been to loads of physio and occupational stuff.
Vince Hempsall 48:16
You and I should, you know, should like plan out a schedule. For me, the tough part is like, you know, staying honest and saying, Yeah, but if you like you and I are like, all right, you know, this is this is the schedule, we got to like, at least I'm at least I'm beholden to somebody. This is what I've learned from the sleep consultant is that if I'm beholden to somebody other than me, I'll actually make an effort.
Blue Netherclift 48:39
I'd like to do ideally a Tuesday and Thursday evening session.
Vince Hempsall 48:43
Totally. And it's easy for me if you're doing that to say to Marley, Tuesday and Thursday evenings, I'm like, yeah, I'm training because yeah, Lou and I are on the same program,
Blue Netherclift 48:54
you know? So yeah, thanks, man.
Vince Hempsall 48:57
Thank you. That was super like, like you said during the conversation, it was great to like, shoot the shit.
Blue Netherclift 49:02
Yeah. Cool, buddy. going on. We'll be in touch.
And now for checking with my favorite psychologist and fellow dad Todd Katonah. So how important is it to maintain your identity in a parent child relationship, because I feel it is something you can really give up of yourself, your activities and your hobbies and things?
Todd Kettner 49:34
Absolutely, I think it's critical. And I think it's also critical not to second guess ourselves or be hard on ourselves, when we can't have the same level of whatever it was that we were doing before that was great. And otherwise, we end up in his parents in a catch 22 right. I need to maintain my identity to be a great dad, you know, great mom and being in situation and at the same time. You know, I want to be there for my kids. So you Your example made me think of Tara and I when we before we had kids we some of our closest friends still we climbed a lot and six weeks after let's see had Jamie we were back in the high desert and you know the mic was belaying her and and Tara nine were taking care of the new baby well you know she wasn't climbing at grade she wasn't you know this wasn't she didn't read point to anything that day but she was on a route that was you know, a couple levels below what she would typically climb but you know, honestly she was still sore right but she was out there and doing it again and you know as I look to them they've raised their three girls to be adventuresome independent, and you know, they kept climbing, camping, traveling all kinds of stuff. So yeah, it's important you know, it it's a logistical nightmare. Yeah, it's, it's important to you know, it's not so much I think anymore the quantity but the quality of that time for you know, individual you know, to be ourselves to do what we what nourishes us and feeds our souls with our buddies with our partners, if that's the case and with kids and to you know, get some of that time, you know, ideally every week even if it's half an hour to an hour, and then the rest of the time we adapt, right we put the kid in the stroller and we go cross country skiing with them behind us.
Blue Netherclift 51:35
Yeah, I like what you said about nourishing. I really like that you're right that's so true. And there's something that I need to because the other thing that we were talking about was this idea from a friend of mine that the it's compromised climbing when you go with your family or your kid and I like what Ben says because he's right it's like it's not never compromised when your work you're you're sorry not working but you're spending time with your kid playing so for me certainly it's an acceptance of like okay, this isn't the climbing session like you said you climb to grades lower you do you know you access easier route so that all the family can be involved and it's definitely something that I've had to accept and I'm trying to get back there again, but you know, really doing everything I can to get away from the family so I can really focused on the climbing as opposed to focus on juggling the kids and yeah, I've had that hard time with that compared to skiing where there's much more of a community atmosphere at the ski hill or whitewater where we all ski and I really like that and there are I can let it go and I can be with the family and I can I everybody can kind of access the hill in their own way.
Todd Kettner 52:45
Yeah, absolutely. And I think anytime you know, we find something like that that works. It can be an impetus or a catalyst to expand that right like I remember when our kids were little we quickly discovered that you know, even if you didn't plan ahead you get up in the lodge and there'd be two or three other you know, parents with young kids and it was just okay your lap. I'll watch these three ones napping, one's feeding one's changing Okay, two laps rotate in and you just sort of have this you know ready made childcare and then you go on that works. Yeah, we can't really do that on a multi pitch climb. But we can sure as hell do that when we're top roping with a few boulders at the base right?
Blue Netherclift 53:29
Yeah. Then it becomes more location specific make finding a place for the family to be at the the base Yeah, and there are places you can do that. So where the year where we ended it was nice for Vince his suggestion was yeah just let's find a shedule where we both are going to train maybe on a Tuesday and Thursday we check in with each other you know I'm in the slow cam but I've got a bouldering cave he has got access to the cube climbing wall near him and I think he's thinking about I think if I got it right he's going to try and build a wall by I love that actually, I haven't tried that before this idea of just being accountable to each other. So I'm really looking forward to that over the next few weeks and then
Todd Kettner 54:12
advanced planning helps with you know, partners whether they're you know, current partners or you know, second partners or third partners or whatever the situation is right because they know that hey, not only is Tuesday night your sacred sacred time in the cave, you know climbing and training but that implies and you would readily agree to Thursday night as you know his or her sacred time in you know, their room but doing what they do right so yeah, we really push each other amongst friends you know, like like you're talking about you invents and within our families with our partners to I need this time and I think you need this time. How can I give you this time to
Blue Netherclift 54:52
Yeah, yep, absolutely. No, it's so true. Yeah, so hopefully the yeah the spring I'll see as into a bit of a better routine. And I definitely need to take care of myself. I'm really good at encouraging others but not always taken care of for me. So yeah, especially during COVID because you get home eating so much, it's more even more important. It feels like
Todd Kettner 55:13
Yeah, exactly. Well climb on.
Blue Netherclift 55:16
Climb on. Yeah. Thank you, man. Thanks for joining us this week on dat without borders. A full list of episodes can be found at dad without borders.com. And for updates follow on Instagram at dad without borders. You can subscribe to the show in iTunes, Spotify, Google or radio.com. While you're at it, if you enjoyed listening or you know any dads that might find value in the show, please share the podcast with your friends. Dad without borders. We'll be back next week with another dad and further insights with Todd Kettner.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai